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Post by Kooshmeister on Oct 23, 2004 17:23:54 GMT -5
Ever notice in the show, the way that the mammals (well, warm-bloods in general) seem to regard the toads? Aside from the film shown to Willy early on, the mammals never seem to acknowledge the fact that, once upon a time, the toads were innocent, fun-loving, harmless people like anybody else.
I know there's a war on, and the toads are enemy that must be stopped regardless of the fact they were unwillingly turned into an evil, fascist empire, and that if need be they'll have to kill more than a few of them in battle. But what I'm talking about is the way in which the warm-bloods look upon the toads in much the same way the toads look upon them. Mutual species-ism.
The differance is, though, that the toads were brainwashed to think that way; they had their hatred for the mammals thrust upon them and burned into their minds by KOMPLEX. The mammals, on the other hand, have no excuse.
It bothers me intensely that they seem to hate the toads less because of their atrocities, and more just because of the fact that they're toads, and therefore "icky." A good example is the episode where Deadeye brings that captured toad aboard (after tying him up with his own tongue), and the way Bucky contemptuously refers to him as "disgusting" never sat well with me...
Don't get me wrong, I still love the show and always will, and I know that the writers never intended to make their heroes act this way but, eh, it's just how it seems to have come out.
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Post by The psyko ninja rabbit 2000 on Oct 23, 2004 17:53:03 GMT -5
Hey Koosh,
Have you read all the web series? It shows that some of the hatred towards teh toads is legit. Not all of the toads were brainwashed. As for Bucky's hatred towards teh toads, in the script call "His Father's Son" explains it quite well why he hates them. Other than that, can't say much more!
Psykorabbit2000
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Post by IdentityCrisis on Oct 23, 2004 18:03:24 GMT -5
The overt symbolism of creating a universe of animals speaks for itself. The creators of the show seem to have approached the inter-species problem simplistically; although amongst the mammals the characters may (or may not...) be typecast according to their innate personalities (reflected externally through their appearance), the toads allow no such freedom, and as such are regarded not on an individual basis, but as a conceptual device which serves the plot. Since they all look the same, their characters are also all the same.
This explains the behaviour of the major characters, who, for the sake of simplicity, equate the difference in species with a difference in moral outlook, which relates well to other cartoons and the political climate of the time. So, when Bucky refers to the toad as "disgusting", he is not only commenting on his appearance, but also on his character. The idea that the mammals have the moral high-ground is reinforced both by their actions and their physicality.
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Post by Autobahn on Oct 23, 2004 18:17:15 GMT -5
If you are basing this mostly on the cartoon then remember it was aimed mostly at kids ;D
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Post by Kooshmeister on Oct 23, 2004 18:54:55 GMT -5
True enough, but, regardless, it still bothers me because, as I said, the toads were all brainwashed into evildoers (the aforementioned revelation in the web series notwithstanding). Can they really be held responsible for their actions?
This in itself seemed at first to be an easy out for the writers, in order to make KOMPLEX the only TRUE villain, with the toads themselves just unfortunate pawns. But midway through the series it seems as though the writers forget about this whole concept, as evidenced by the mammals' complete lack of compassion for the toads, who are victims of KOMPLEX just like they are.
So what I'm getting at is, if the mammals know the toads were brainwashed and hate them anyway, that says, to me, that the toads were always regarded this way by their warm-blooded neighbors. Which is an interesting path the series could've taken but didn't, with the toads being, essentially, the equivalent ostracized geeks deciding to take up arms against the schoolyard bullies, with the mammals realizing, too late, that they'd treated the toads unjustly.
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Post by Autobahn on Oct 23, 2004 21:01:51 GMT -5
Well they say the first victim of any war is the truth.
And add the fact that it's the toads they are having to attack and defend against day in, day out. So can you really blame the mammals for having little sympathy for the toads (who aren't themselves very merciful with prisoners) ?
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Post by Hush Mazmanos on Oct 23, 2004 22:41:40 GMT -5
Mammals hating the toads even though they know they are brainwashed? The webseries actually shows why the mammals hate the toads so much and the episode "His Father's Son" Like what Psy said shows why Bucky hates the toads so much and if you notice The toads barely show any mercy to anyone even innocents so it drives the mammals to hate the toads even more because of that fact. Like the take over of Genus it shows just how ruthless the toads can actually be which gives the mammals a bloody good reason to discriminate the toads.
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Post by The psyko ninja rabbit 2000 on Oct 24, 2004 1:47:02 GMT -5
Yeah, you go Hush!
If i had to deal with a race that seemed to take a great deal of delight in conquering my world, i would guess that i would probably hate them or discriminate against them pretty strongly too!
Psykorabbit2000
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Post by Hush Mazmanos on Oct 24, 2004 6:33:31 GMT -5
A lot of the readers can confirm this but the Toads are the ones who actually started this war in the first place... And again this can be found in "His Father's Son". But it gets me thinking I'm actually only supporting the Toads cause Creelevard is there *looks at Powree's Drawings of Creelevard then Chante*
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Post by IdentityCrisis on Oct 24, 2004 10:25:02 GMT -5
Creelevard is so the best toad! ;D
As for the brainwashing, once it's been done the conflict is set up and the writers had no need to go back and justify the actions of their characters. In fact what two sides do amounts to a sort of mutual ethnic cleansing really. Just like real life.
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